Episode 5: Fred Claire

[00:00:05] Speaker A: Hello and welcome. I'm your host, Danny Torres, and thanks for once again tuning in for another exciting talking 21 podcast. The official podcast dedicated to the extraordinary life and legacy of the legendary 21 provelto Clemente Walker. And as promised on a tweet, I posted it. The following listeners subscribed and rated episode four with Tony Perez, and I wanted to give them the ultimate shout out on our pod, a special thank you to Lou Rosario, Scott Chamberlain, Alfred Alvarez, DJ Rios, and our number one talking 21 listener, Amber Ray Richardson. The 2020 World Series is officially over, and after a 32 year drought, the Los Angeles Dodgers are once again celebrating. Our next esteemed guest knows very well how it feels to hoist the commissioner's trophy being doused with champagne and hearing those electrifying words, the Los Angeles Dodgers are World Series champions. Our next guest graduated from college with a degree in journalism and eventually became a sports editor writer for numerous newspapers. As a sports writer, he covered the Los Angeles Dodgers and eventually expressed an interest to work in the Dodgers public relations department. Within a few years, he became the vice president of public relations. But in 1987, the Dodgers vp and general manager at the time appeared on a late night television program and made some disparaging remarks. The following day, the Dodgers owner turned to his vice president of public relations to take over the role as his newest gm. [00:01:54] Speaker B: Think about it. [00:01:55] Speaker A: He's a pr guy who actually helped coin the term Dodger blue, and yet he rolled up his sleeves. In his first year as general manager. He won 94 games and went on to win the 1988 World Series. This is the story of Jamestown, Ohio native Fred Claire. Fred, thanks so much for joining us on the talking 21 podcast. And I usually have a set amount of questions, but I may go extra innings because not only is this an appropriate title of your extraordinary book on your life and written by your dear friend Tim Magadin, but there's so much to cover in a 45 minutes podcast. So, Fred, firstly, I have to start by congratulating your favorite ball club to win their first World Series in 32 years. So I'm sure my listeners, the talking 21 listeners, want to hear your thoughts on the World Series, and certainly have you already spoken to Dave Roberts? [00:02:56] Speaker B: I exchanged text messages with Dave and offered my congratulations. He replied. And this is so typical of Dave. He replied, I am so happy for our players and I am so happy for our team. That short message identifies who Dave Roberts is. It's all about the team. It's all about the city. It's all about others. And I will share this last year when his team was knocked out by the Washington Nationals and Dave had a lot of criticism come his way. And I texted him and I said, dave, your team set a record for wins. You once again had a fabulous winning season. I never heard you once take credit for a single thing. The only thing I ever heard you do was to take responsibility. And I said, I will be so happy to see you holding the world championship trophy. That hope became a reality this year. So I couldn't be more thrilled for Dave, the team, the organization. [00:04:03] Speaker A: You know, it's interesting just hearing you say that, Fred, immediately what came to mind when I was reading your book extra innings, that this is exactly what you did 32 years ago. As the old adage goes, Fred, let's start from the beginning. It's 1969 before you even raised that championship trophy in 1988, as the Dodgers general manager, you were a sports rider. You also had the opportunity to play shortstops in the minor leagues. Interesting enough, you replaced Bobby Valentine, a future Mets manager. Your minor league manager in 1969 is Tommy Lasorta. My question to you, Fred Claire, who planted the seed of baseball, and Fred. [00:04:45] Speaker B: Claire's mind, it was planted in Jamestown, Ohio, with a dirt field. It took a major leap when my wonderful parents took my brother and I to Crosley Field. My brother was a great cardinal fan and loved Stan. Usual when we walked into Crosby Field, I must have been ten or eleven at the time, and I saw Crosby Field. I thought, this is the greatest sight I have ever seen in my lifetime. From the joy of PLAYing the game and loving the game, then becoming a fan of the game, inspired by my brother. I wasn't clipping out box scores and following the game. I just wanted to play the game. But Doug had a scrapbook, and I believe the year was 1948. Doug was left handed, I was right handed. We were always competing in everything. So since he had the cardinals, I took on the cincinnati reds as my favorite team. And that was the start of my love for the game of baseball. [00:05:47] Speaker A: That's an amazing story there, of where it all started, there in OHIO. You were at the 1972 world series with your dear friend JACKIE Robinson, who was invited to throw out the ceremonial first pitch to commemorate the 25th anniversary of his historic first game in 1947. Sadly, this would be his final public appearance, and he would pass away on October 24. And I want our listeners to hear your recollections of when you met Jackie for the very first time. [00:06:16] Speaker B: When I met JACKIE, it was in that SAMe YEAR, in 1972, we had an old timers game. And in June of 1972, the numbers of Jackie, Roy Campanella and Sunny Kofax became the first numbers ever to be retired by the Dodgers. So that's when I first met JACKIE and DANNY. Something happened that day that spoke volumes about JACKIE. And I was standing right there. JACKIE's there with a group of people. There was a fan in the stands and he was yelling at Jackie, sign this. SIGN this. SIGN this ball. The fan threw the ball, it hit Jackie on the shoulder. And JACKIe had diabetes. He could no more have caught that ball than anything in the world. His eyesight was very, very bad. But here's the thing that happened, Danny, that spoke volumes and left an impression on me that I will never forget. Everyone went crazy. Get that GUY. Get that GUy. Throw that guy out of the ballpark. JACKIE said, give me the ball. JACKIe took the ball and said, hand me a pin. Jackie signed the ball and gave it back to one of the people he was with and said, give this ball back to the gentleman. And I thought, if this is not symbolic, when everyone has lost their temperament, when everyone is going wild, there was a calmness in Jackie and the ability to do the right thing. And then fast forward. That's june now. In October, Oakland is playing the Reds in the World Series when the commissioner has invited Jackie to throw out the first ball. As we were standing there in the group again with Jackie, and I can't say I was close to Jackie. I only knew him, really, from two very memorable occasions. Up approaches a person. Everyone in the group recognizes that Jackie can't see. His vision isn't that good. And one of the people whispered to Jackie, it's peewee. Peewee Reese approaches Jackie, gives him his hug. DIabEtes was so BAd. COULdn't catch a ball, COuldn't see PEEWee. 5ft away, JackiE goes out onto the field. The commissioner, Buoy Kuhn is there, and Jackie thanks his teammate P wave. And I believe he terms him, and it's on YouTube, the leader of our team. And he pays tribute to the great branch Ricky, who signed him. And then he says, want to thank baseball for its ACCOMPLISHment in diversity, BUT I will not be happy until I see a black man as the manager of the dodgers. Here was Jackie, eyesight failing, health really failing, makes that pitch for diversity, for baseball, and passed away nine days later. [00:09:12] Speaker A: You left me speechless with that story there because immediately I thought, look at his. That this fan threw that baseball. And what was being thrown at JaCKIE in 1947? What was coming out of people's mouths? Fans. And just here it is. Fast forward to 1972. And yet Jackie cool comic collective just grabs the baseball, signs it, and makes sure that that person gets the baseball. So that's quite powerful. But now we're talking to sports journalism. We're talking about the sports journalist Fred Claire, who eventually becomes the Dodgers vice president of public relations. And yet, sadly, Fred, in 1987, your world would basically turn upside down, completely change forever. Many of us know what happened on Nightline with Ted Coppell, with the late Al Campanis, who was the general manager of the Dodgers at that time. [00:10:03] Speaker C: Why is it that there are no black managers, no black general managers, no black owners? [00:10:09] Speaker D: Well, Mr. Coppell, there have been some black managers, but I really can't answer that question directly. The only thing I can say is that you have to pay your dues when you become a manager. Generally, you have to go to minor leagues. There's not very much pay involved. And some of the better known black players have been able to get into other fields and make a pretty good living. [00:10:33] Speaker C: You know that that's a lot of baloney. I mean, there are a lot of black players. There are a lot of great black baseball men who would dearly love to be in managerial positions. Why do you think it is? Is there still that much prejudice in baseball today? [00:10:47] Speaker D: No, I don't believe it's prejudice. I truly believe that they may not have some of the necessities to be, let's say, a field manager or perhaps a general manager. I don't say that all of them, but they certainly are short. How many quarterbacks do you have? How many pitchers do you have that are black? [00:11:09] Speaker C: That really sounds like garbage, if you forget. [00:11:13] Speaker D: It's not garbage, Mr. Koppel, because I played on a college team and the center fielder was black, and then backfield at NYU with a pullback who was black, never knew the difference of whether he was black or white. We were teammates. Why are black men or black people not good swimmers? Because they don't have the buoyancy. [00:11:34] Speaker C: It may just be that they don't have access to all the country clubs and the pools. [00:11:39] Speaker A: How were you, Fred Clare, when Peter O'Malley turns to you and says, I want you to be the general manager? Did you ever even consider to say no? [00:11:47] Speaker B: I didn't consider saying no. I said to Peter when he asked me that, Peter, if you are asking me to accept this role, I will happily do so. I had been with the Dodgers for nearly 20 years at that point. And I said, if you want to form a committee, I'd be happy to be a part of committee. But if you're asking me to accept this role, I just want to have a full understanding that I have full, complete, total responsibility because I believe in responsibility. I believe that in any organization, whoever is making the decision needs to be held accountable for the decisions that are being made. I accepted that responsibility gladly because I had had the experience again, having been with the Dodgers for nearly 20 years, I had had the experience being in all meetings in spring training. I'm getting to know Walter Austin and all of his coaches and Mr. O'Malley and Peter O'Malley and all the scouts in the organization and the coaches in the organization. I knew them all by first name. I knew all the other general managers. I wasn't the least bet intimidated. I was ready for the challenge because I knew one thing. I was going to give what I had to do the job. And actually, I think, in Ross's word, in the Los Angeles time, Ross Newhand. In that first day, Ross asked Peter O'Malley a very good question. He said, how long does Fred have the job? And Peter gave the best answer anybody could give. He said, he has it for today. That's all we have, Danny, and that's the way I took the job. And that today ran from 1987 until I was fired in 1998. [00:13:35] Speaker A: Certainly. June 21, 1998, you lost a friend, Al Campanis. We have now known and to have experienced what occurred on Nightline. But he was your friend. He was a teammate of Jackie Robinson at one time. Tell me about Al Canpanis, who, by the way, if I may, he actually even scouted and put together a beautiful scouting report on Roberto Clemente. That is another thing as well. So I wanted to add that in as well. [00:14:05] Speaker B: No, of course he did, because Al was a great judge of players and of talent, and Al always judged players. This is very important. He judged players on talent. He didn't judge them on any other part. I'll never forget, Danny, that Peter asked the third day in Houston, the season that opens Houston. Al goes on Nightline after the first game. Then there's the second game, and before the third game, Peter asked Al to resign. And Peter and Al flew back together. And from the airport, Peter called me and told me, said, fred, you have to take this job. And he said, al wants to speak to you. And I'll never forget Al's words. He said, fred, I wish you could have been with me last night. Al didn't tell anyone he was going on Nightline, and I would have tried to have helped AL with the thought that Al this is going to be about the celebration of Jackie Robinson, where you've had a huge role. You need to think about that. What happened, Danny, and this was in the book that was written some time ago. Fred Claire, my 30 years in Dodger Blue is that Al loved the game of baseball. When the questions were being asked, Mr. Camp Hanis, why aren't there more blacks in management positions? Al was trying to, in my view, defend the game of baseball where there was no defense. Al did have a trait, and I can see this. When we would argue about players or in player discussions, Al always had one more point he wanted to make. In this case, he was headed the wrong direction. Danny and his statements were, in so many ways certainly not reflective of Al. And you know, who speaks so much better to that than I do, and I've been so happy to see this. You want to know about Al Campanis, you would have asked Tommy Davis or Maury Wills or Lou Johnson or Willie Davis or anybody who ever played because his assessment of players was based on ability. He truly loved the game of baseball. So now he's trying to defend the game where there is no defense. Unfortunately, we see that in our life and in our world and everything around us today where arguments are being made that make absolutely no sense, but taking a position and not wanting to waver from that position, and it's wrong. It was wrong then, it's wrong now. And Al knew, know I can remember he called me one time and he said, freddie said after I'd become the general manager, I'm sitting here in my office in Florida, said, you know, I have a picture of Jackie Robinson behind my desk. I said, al, I've known you for 25 years. You don't need to tell me who you are. I know who you are. But AL never made excuses. He saw has BEen reported Vince folly that night and said, vinny said, I made a big mistake tonight. It was unfortunate because he was a good man. He contributed greatly to the Dodgers. He contributed greatly to the success of Jackie Robinson. And as you point out, Andy, I know. We'll talk later. He was instrumental in the signing of Roberto Clementine. I was so happy to see the other day on social media, Al, scouting report on RobeRTo ClEmenti. UNfoRtUnate chapter, but that's what happens in life. [00:17:57] Speaker A: Let's talk about FRed. Building the right team isn't easy, especially for a first year general manager. And I'm sure before you took over this job, you kind of were familiar with players that were out there, were free agents, players that you got a chance to see, even in the capacity and public relations. But you put together this 1988 team, what are the attributes, the makeup of a ball player? What was Fred looking for? [00:18:26] Speaker B: I was looking for the thing that then and today surpasses analytics character makeup. And my first day, second day on the job, Bill Madlock had to go on the disabled list, and we needed a third baseman. I reached out to a friend who once worked for the Dodgers, and again, it shows that the background or the connections I had in the game. Willie Sanchez, who was the agent for Mickey Hatcher? Mickey Hatcher had just been released by the Minnesota Twins. I knew Mickey from his previous days with the Dodgers. I knew what type of player he was. I knew what his makeup was. I knew how he fit in with the team. I knew that this was a guy that would go through a wall. I made the decision to not only sign Mickey Hatcher, Willie told me that Fred is going to take him, he lives in AriZona, to get his stuff ready. It's going to take him three days to get to Albuquerque and get ready. I said, willie, he's not come to Albuquerque. He's come to Dodger Stadium. And in signing him, I released someone who's a friend today, Jerry Royce, who's one of our highest paid players. Our payroll was like 13 million. Jerry made a million himself. And I love Jerry as a person, but I have been through all of Al's media and spring training. I knew what the coaches had had to say. I knew that we are pitching. Depth was good, and particularly the starting pitching and putting together a team. It is the makeup of the players, and I applaud because of what I have now come to see, the signing of Mookie Betts. Mookie Betts plays the game the way that I want you as a player to play the game, to utilize all of the ability that you have, and he has, in his case, great ability to be a part of this team, to set the right example to how this team is going to be playing the game. So I'm a huge proponent of the makeup and the character. And a lot of times I've made trades, and you can make trades where you feel that if we bring this guy in, we can change this player in terms of some of the things we've heard. And there are times when you can, but you want to pay close attention to the, you know, a lot of the players we brought in were from the american league, including, of course, the biggest one of all, the signing of Kurt Gibson, Rick Dempsey, John Shelby, Alfredo Griffin, Jay Howe. [00:21:07] Speaker A: So Tommy was on board with all those guys? Tommy was on board. [00:21:10] Speaker B: Tommy, look, in 1987, our team, or 86, our team finished 16 games under 500. The team that went through the 87 season finished 16 games under 500. So I called upon Tommy a lot. What I wanted to know from Tommy and from the coaches is where they felt the greatest needs were. I was fortunate and surrounded myself with great scouts who I literally would talk to every day. Mel Didier, the great Phil Regan. Danny, who you know from many New York days, the late Steve Boros, former manager, one of the first people in the game ever involved in analytics. A very intelligent, wonderful, dear man who we lost all too soon and all of our scouts within the system. So I was a big believer in drawing the input from scouts and from others who knew the game. And there's a funny story, I don't think I've ever told it, that Joey Mafatana, we were talking recently and he said when you would ask us about players, a lot of times you'd ask about players in the American League. I didn't know. Some of these was always, I would always call my budy Don Zimmer, who was in the american league, and say, don, friends ask me, what do you think of this guy? What do you think of this guy? And after we made a few deals, Joey calls Zim again. Joey tells me the story later, after the passing of the wonderful Zimmer and Zimmerman says, joey, you keep calling me. Let me ask you a question. When is Freddie going to put me on the payroll? It's a game of information. It's a game of analytics. You know, one of the most underrated scouts in the game. Nobody would ever guess the visiting clubhouse guy. You can take all the analytics you want. And I was the chairman of the analytics company. I know analytics. I want to hear from the visiting clubhouse guy. I want to know who walks in the clubhouse late on that visiting team. I want to know who walks in hungover. I want to know who's a pain in the ass, who doesn't get along with his teammates, just doesn't seem to give a damn half the time. Visiting clubhouse guys may be the greatest scouts in the game and nobody ever calls on them. [00:23:36] Speaker A: That's a good point. That's a good point there. Truly, Fred has been some memorable moments that I'm sure after so many years of talking about that great 88 World Series. I mean, whether it's Kurt Gibson's pinch, it walk off, oral Hirschheiser's performance, Mickey Hatcher, T Bone. I mean, there's just so many stories. But I'm going to tell you, Fred, you know, I'm a New Yorker and I'm actually a Mets fan, but you got to tell me right now, was there any trepidation on facing the 1988 new York Mets? Because let's be honest, Fred, the Mets had the Dodgers number in 88. So give me some insight there with that series. [00:24:22] Speaker B: But I'll tell you something, there wasn't any trepidation. Because here's the thing. The Mets were expected to be there. The Dodgers weren't expected to be there. But the more that season went on, the better we played and the closer the players came to one another. So when we got postseason play, this was no longer a team that was introducing itself in spring training. This was a team collectively that had done so much and had shown true leadership in the emergence of Kirk on our team in the incredible season that oral was having in the steadiness of Mike Sosha and the wonderful pitching, not only of oral, but of Kim Belcher, of Kim Leary and Jay Howe closing our games. So when we got to the playoffs, there was no over match here. [00:25:23] Speaker A: I tell you, hearing that right now, my New York City listeners, specifically my brother and a couple of other diehard Met fans, are going to maybe even say, danny, why did you ask that question? But listen, I needed to know. I needed to know again, talking about the 88 World Series countless times. But I'm going to ask you something else, and that is the Dodgers owner at that time, your dear friend to this day, Peter O'Malley. What do you recall your recollections when you were hoisting that World Series trophy? What were the first words that came out of Peter O'Malley's mouth when he sees Fred Clare, his general manager? [00:26:01] Speaker B: I know how thrilled Peter was. We had come from two terrible, terrible seasons, literally last place seasons, and for the Dodgers to be back on top of the baseball world after what we had been through in a couple of seasons. Peter is all about the team. He is all about the organization and the philosophy of Mr. O'Malley Walder Peter O'Malley was always that this organization is just that. It's not about one man who may be the general manager. It's not about one man who may be the manager. We are in this collectively. And so it was really that feeling. And I can remember my words when I envisioned that we had this opportunity to win a world championship. The thing that was scripted in my mind was to pay tribute to the scouts in our organization, to pay tribute to all of the player development people to pay tribute to all of those people who are contributing so much out of the spotlight and not being fortunate enough to be there to raise that trophy. We are only there because of them. [00:27:23] Speaker A: For 30 years, you truly played a huge part of the Dodgers success in a wide variety of different capacities. And again, meeting Jackie Robinson, and certainly there was another National League player who played right field for the Pittsburgh Pirates, who also impacted the game on and off the field. What are your recollections, Fred? Clare, and memories of Roberto Clemente when he actually would come to Los Angeles to play there at Dodger Stadium. Did you ever get a chance to meet him on the field prior to the game itself? But what are your Dan? [00:28:00] Speaker B: I wish I could say yes to that, having had the opportunity to meet him or having met him. My recollection is greatness every part of Roberto's game. And in talking to others who knew Roberto very well, friends like Manny Moda or Joey Malfatano, who would speak to the greatness of Roberto. And in studying Roberto's career and seeing how he was appraised by others, you could say the record speaks for itself. With all of the awards that he won, all of his accomplishments in leading the Pirates, it is the great Roberto Clemente. I think that's the only way to say his name. [00:28:55] Speaker A: And that is the reason why the great Bob prince called him the great one. In that same spirit, Fred, Jackie and Roberto, they're just so much intertwined. And I really want to talk about that a little later in our podcast. I want to talk, Fred, about your book, extra innings and the city of Hope, and I want them to know your story. I believe in seeing everything you've done up to this point and now this next chapter in your life with city of hope. You are literally, for me, personifying everything that Jackie has stood for, everything that Roberto has stood for. And I'm just so happy and thrilled that you found me on social media. So please talk to me about extra innings. Talk to me about what occurred to you starting a few years back that our listeners might literally, they know the general manager, but they don't know truly what occurred in Fred's life a few years back. [00:29:50] Speaker B: Well, Danny, I certainly appreciate those kind remarks. What occurred, and the reason I went public is that in 2015 goes back five years now. At the start of the year, I had a very small spot on my lip that wasn't even noticeable, but it didn't seem to want to go away. And so I went in to see my dermatologist and she said that she took a biopsy. She said, fred, this is small, but we should take a biopsy. And they did. And I can remember the call. I was in my car. She said, fred, we took the biopsy. What it shows, instead of saying for the previous 50 biopsies on spots on my skin that it's not a problem, it's not malignant. She said, fred, this is what's known as squamous cell carcinoma, and you're going to need to have someone other than me. You're going to need a more advanced procedure. So she sent me to a doctor who did the mo's procedure, and they removed the spot. And if you're familiar, Danny and I know many of the listeners are, with the Mose procedure, you can have one swipe or you may have to have 510 or 15 because they can be serious. This was just the smallest of spots, and two swipes. Had the most procedure. A couple of stitches in my lip, hardly noticeable. Went back on my life now in 2016, a year and a half or a year later, because August or July of 2016, I'm having these tremendous pains in my face that I can't believe what's happening. And I went back to see my dentist to see if there was anything. I couldn't understand the pain. It was all but intolerable. And so after many CAT scans and mris, it was discovered that the spot on my lip, the cancer, the tumor, had outgrown and was in and moving up my jawbone. After the doctors who had been involved said, fred, you're going to need to get into City of Hope to see a doctor there, because they're the best in the area in treating cancer. They have a young surgeon by the name of Dr. Brennan, who was a marvelous young man. And so Cheryl and I went in to see Dr. Grinnon. Here I am at that time, hadn't reached yet my 2016, my 81st birthday, but I'm 80 years old, playing golf, running as healthy as I can be. So blessed. And Dr. Gordon said, fred, this is serious because this cancer in this part of your body is very bad. So we made the decision. I made the decision to have the operation to have the cancer removed from my jawbone. They hollowed out my jawbone. I went through 33 radiations, where they literally burn your face. I went through seven chemos. I thought I was a good path. But then in 2017, the cancer came back in my neck. And it was only then, at that time, on a clinical trial with five other people, I learned later, I went on immunotherapy, and immunotherapy is what saved my life. I felt so obligated. Not only obligated, but seeing the work, Danny, of the city of Hope and how they help people, and then knowing other people who know when you go into the city of hope, they give you a wristband. I couldn't help but think when I go into city of hope, because we were with all these appointments, literally every day for a year or two during that street, it was almost like walking into Dodger Stadium. There was this feeling of togetherness. There's this feeling for me of people fighting a huge battle and feeling the empathy for people that I could see were clearly, even though my chances at one point were listed at 20%. See that? The pain and the anguish. And that's when I told my wife, Cheryl, and asked city hope that I want to raise money for City Hope. I want to try to make a difference, and I think that I have enough friends who will come out. And in two years, we raised a half million dollars for City Hope. It's in the book after innings that I lost a dear friend. As you know, I lost several friends, but one of them, from a baseball standpoint that was so emotional for me, was the great Kevin powers, such a wonderful contributor to the game. And so everyone isn't winning these battles. Kevin's cancer was anaplastic. Thyroid cancer. It's all but unbeatable. That cancer, until they find a solution, wins every time. That's why at Kevin's memorial service at Peco Park, I went up to his wife Kelly, and said, kelly, we had this golf tournament. We raised money last year. This year, half the money. I want to go to the cancer. Kevin and the other will go to head and neck cancer. And bless her heart, Kelly said, fred, I don't play golf, but I'll be true golf. So it's what drives me. It's the reason I wanted to have the book. Extra innings. Fred Claire's journey to City of Hope and finding the world championship team. That's why the proceeds from the book go to City of Hope. We had two golf tournaments that raised a half million dollars, and I'm looking forward to a golf tournament in 2021 where we will celebrate what I consider I've been so fortunate. I've been a part of two world championship teams. They're very similar. One is the Dodgers and one is city of Hope. And that's the team that I'm on today, and that's the team that I am so proud of, because of my current involvement, City of Hope started with two tents, one for the doctors, the medical staff, and one for the patients. That disease was tuberculosis. And when they succeeded through all of the advances, then they turned the cancer and city hope today, in fact, and having a chance to meet the doctors and the staff and the leaders and know what they're doing to work in research for Covid-19 because they've been a major force in that area. So that's my journey today. And so proud to be associated with City of Hope. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Immediately, I just thought of kind of going back to the World Series 1972. You were there with Jackie, and now I'm thinking, here it is. We just celebrated the victory for the Los Angeles Dodgers. Finally, 32 years later, they win the World Series. And immediately I thought of Jackie, because here it is. Dave Roberts, an african american manager wearing a Dodgers uniform, is winning the World Series. And then I think of Roberto Clemente, who for the very first time, when he was the name the MVP of the 1971 World Series, for the first time ever, he speaks on live tv in Spanish, thanking his children, his family. But it was the first time ever on the national stage to speak where people at home could see the language of the people of Puerto Ricans on the island and in the states. But immediately I thought of Clemente, because here it is. Two of his countrymen, Enrique Quique Hernandez and Edwin Rios, are part of that championship team. But then there's also a young latino ball player, Julio Urias, of mexican descent, a mexican neighbor who had the flag draped on his body during the post game press conference. And immediately I'm saying to myself, Fred, what would you say if Jackie and Roberto were with us today and seeing what is happening in 2020 throughout our nation, throughout the world, with the social unrest? What does Fred Claire want that message to be where everyone could look at the two examples of Jackie and Roberto. [00:39:05] Speaker B: How proud that they should be in their accomplishments of helping others, because they have that common bond. As great as they were, and they were two great, great, immense athletic talents. As great as they were as players, their contribution to mankind went far beyond anything that you ever did on the field. And you were the best. You were hall of Fame. But the impact that you made in your short life resonates today because they passed at basically the same time on 1972, but how much they have meant. And then I would say to them that your contributions, with all that they have meant, are more meaningful today, this date, than they have ever been in history, because I think that what they stood for. And what they did is more important than it's ever been. And it's so fascinating, Danny, as you well know, as a student of the game, the history of the two men and their talent and what they accomplished, but who they were as people. I've asked Manny, tell me about Roberto. And he talks about Roberto the man before he talks about Roberto the player. [00:40:49] Speaker A: And, you know, he always calls him, he doesn't call him Roberto. He calls him by his nickname, moment. [00:40:53] Speaker B: I think that all of us should recognize how they handled their life and really how they gave their lives because they have that common bond, even though they may seem to have been drastically different in how they passed, but they were not different in the respect that they both gave their lives helping others. Roberto certainly very vividly and clearly on an airplane to bring need to others in need. Jackie speaking to the public at a time nine days before his passing. So they're not only at the top of our game, they should be recognized for their meaning to society, to their countries, to the world. [00:41:58] Speaker A: I'm so glad that you summarize both men so eloquently. And I want to now basically present this scenario to you. Here it is, Jackie Robinson, as we know, an African American, Roberto Clemente, a black Puerto Rican. Something that he said often, first, I'm black and I'm Puerto Rican. Who originally was signed by the Brooklyn DODgers and faced similar hate during the early part of his professional career. And interesting enough, Fred, I just found out maybe about seven or eight years ago, he received a death threat on the eve of hitting his 3000th hit in Pittsburgh. And Jackie wore number 42. And if you think of number 21 and add another 21, we got the number 42. We know the answer. They're future Baseball hall of Famers, trailblazers in their respective communities and spoke out on the injustices they encountered and sadly, ironically, died the same year, 1972. So, Fred, like Jackie, I would love to see RoBerto's number retired throughout major League BAsEball. And I'd like to hear your thoughts on this DebAte that once again has resurfaced. After last month, the entire Pirates team on Roberto Clemente Day, September 9, they wore the number 21 for the very first time since 1972. So, Fred, I love to hear your thoughts. Would you like to see 21 hang alongside 42? [00:43:28] Speaker B: Danny, in my mind, it shouldn't be a debate. It should happen. And not only would I love to see it, I feel strongly that it should happen. And when you look at our game today, and it's great to see the diversity, whereas it may be lacking in certain areas. It's not lacking on the playing field itself. Actually, it's probably lacking in terms of not enough black players, but that's another area. But the growth of the game and the talent of the game and so much of it having come from Latin America, because it's a game where you're judged on your ability to play the game. And so I think that it would be most fitting, most appropriate to have Roberto's number, 21 honored in the same way that Jackie's number is honored. And I think that because not only it doesn't have to do so much for all of the greatness of his playing abilities and accomplishment, it has to do as an acknowledgement on who Roberto was and to let that be the right example for all players and certainly players from Latin America to have more of an awareness. We need that continual education about, because a lot of players today, maybe that different era aren't the fans that we were as kids and don't know. And I know this from the Dodger experience, know in our minor leagues, we would educate the players about who Jackie was and who don Newcomb was and the history of all the great players because it's important to know that. But I think, Danny, I think it's fitting. I would love to see that happen. I think if anything, it's overdue. And I think the game would be better for it with that acknowledgement of the honor of Roberto. [00:46:22] Speaker A: I am so happy to hear you say that, my friend. But you know what? It's that time that we got to start plugging a book. So please, Fred, where can I talk? And 21 listeners purchase your book. Extra innings, please. [00:46:36] Speaker B: Thank you for that opportunity and extra innings, Fred. Claire's journey, the City hope and final world championship team is available on Amazon. So again, all net proceeds go to City of Hope. And you can get a feel for the book by going to the Amazon Reviews. There are about 30 reviews that are there of the book, and it's a story of baseball, but it's more than that. It's a story and what I wanted the book to be and became Cheryl and I, the vehicle to travel through it. There's a story of city hope and saving lives and giving meaning to life. So whatever support that we receive is greatly, greatly appreciated. [00:47:33] Speaker A: Well, Fred, I'm looking at my copy right now that you so graciously mailed to me, and it's actually going to be coming to you very soon because I need this book personalized to Danny Torres. But once again, it's extra innings. Fred Claire's journey to City of Hope and finding a world championship team by the great Tim Madigan, forward by a writer from the Los Angeles Times, Bill Flasky. [00:48:00] Speaker B: It was so nice of Dave Roberts, a good friend, to give a nice little plug to the book, a cancer survivor himself. And so many of the Dodgers representatives of all the world championship teams have been with us at the celebrity golf tournaments to raise money for the city of Hope. And so, Danny, I appreciate the opportunity to be with you and talk baseball and talk about a great cause. [00:48:30] Speaker A: Well, I tell you, I want to end it this way because I'm big on giving shout outs. So I just want to mention Dr. Foreman, I want to also mention your dear friend, may he rest in peace, Kevin Towers. Someone else who I have a connection with, I did not know coach Tom Quinley, but I do know very well Chris Woodward. He's a dear friend of mine. I want to also plug paimberger, and I want to tell you, tell Rich key I want that photograph with you with the tears coming down your eye when you were throwing that first pitch at that old timer's day. Could you tell Rich key I'd like a picture signed by you and Rich key? [00:49:08] Speaker B: I will do that, Danny. I will do that. [00:49:11] Speaker A: Amen. Fred Claire and I thank you so much for being on the talking 21 podcast. May God bless you. [00:49:18] Speaker B: Thank you, Danny. Great to be with you and look forward to our continued friendship. [00:49:22] Speaker A: I appreciate that. And don't forget that book is coming soon. Thank you, Fred. And what an extraordinary show. And I want to remind all our listeners to please purchase on Amazon Fred Claire's wonderful book, extra innings. Fred Claire's journey to city of hope and finding a world championship team. Until our next episode, many thanks for listening. And please be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at talking 21 podcast for all the latest information about our episode drops. And if you're enjoying the show, please be sure to subscribe, rate, and certainly review us on Apple, Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, a special thank you to our executive producer, Ras Guevara. Tune in next time for our continued conversation about the great one. And as always, this is your host, Danny Torres. And be sure to follow me on Twitter at Danny T 21 ro.