Episode Transcript
[00:00:19] Speaker A: Extraordinary life and legacy of the legendary 21 Provento Clemente Walker. Can you believe it's already episode three? I want to thank all our listeners who have already subscribed and given our pod a huge thumbs up. Our next guest, I've known him for about eleven years and you'll never guess where we met for the first time. Cooperstown. It was in 2009 for the unveiling of the National Baseball hall of Fame's newest exhibit, Viva Baseball. And our guests, who arrived from Puerto Rico with his wife, donated some rare artifacts that were once owned by his late father. It's my great honor to introduce our dear friend who actually was born in Puerto Rico. Dr. Enrique Zoria is a professor at the School of Dental Medicine at the University of Puerto Rico. Now, our esteemed guest father, who sadly passed away in 1981, was instrumental in the formative years of Roberto Clemente's illustrious career. We all know Clemente signed with the Brooklyn Dodgers in 1954, went on to play for the Montreal Royals, which, guess what, was AA affiliate for the Dodgers and surprisingly wasn't placed on their major league roster. He wasn't even protected. Hence becoming one, if not the greatest rule five draft steals ever. So before the Pirates, there was the Santur Se Crabbers, a championship winter league team in Puerto Rico. And their legendary owner was Dr. Zoria's dad, Don Pedro Zoria. And I'm honored to call Dr. Zoria, Enrique, a dear friend who will share this phenomenal narrative for our listeners. Enrique, Saludos. Welcome to talking 21. How are you doing, my friend?
[00:02:11] Speaker B: How are you doing, Danny? Nice really talking to you and seeing you again.
[00:02:14] Speaker A: Can you please share with our listeners who was Don Pedrinzoria? Describe your dad eventually meeting the great Roberto Clemente.
[00:02:24] Speaker B: Okay. Pedrinzo Ria was a baseball man here in Puerto Rico. Used to play semi pro baseball before the 1938. And when the league started here down in Puerto Rico in 1939, he founded the Santosa Cravers, which you might say the Crabbers here in Puerto Rico are sort of like the New York Yankees. They are the Yankees from Puerto Rico. And he was able to start a team with the same teammates he used to play with. And Santurse Crabbers became a team that was really linked to the poor people in San Juan, the Santurse area, the black players, the black people from the Kangerejos area. And they started a rivalry between the San Juan Senators, which used to be the team of the capital city of San Juan. And this started a very interesting era in baseball here, which baseball was the most important activity here in those times in Puerto Rico, and no matter how the league was doing, Santurse and San Juan and the crowds could be last and next to last. And every time they met in the know, the stadiums were know.
So I can tell you that my father was really fortunate to found this team and be able to form part of the history of Puerto rican baseball and many other things besides. He was a scout many years since for the Brooklyn Dodgers, then the San Francisco Giants for many years, and in his later years for the Chicago Cups. And he was able to sign for professional baseball. Roberto Clemente, Orlando Sepeda, Jose Pagan, Julio.
[00:04:14] Speaker A: Navarro, those are some amazing.
You know, your dad had his own version of the dream team, the panic squad. And Clemente played on that team with another future hall of Famer, the great Willie Maze. Talk about how mays and why he decided to play for your father in Puerto Rico.
[00:04:34] Speaker B: Well, Willie Maze came to play down here in Puerto Rico in 19, 54, 55 season. And he had been the rookie of the year. And I think he had won the batting championship that year. And he came down here to play with the Santurza Crabbers. And as I learned with my father and later with Willie Maze, he came down here and he told me, willie Maze himself told me, I came down to play in Puerto Rico because your father and I were friends. He was my friend.
They had met in the United States, and many black players came to play to Puerto Rico. And my father used to go there and he used to travel with them in their bosses and everything. And he made a lot of friends, and many of them wanted to come play down here in Puerto Rico. So Maze came down here and he was a sensation. And as a curious know, he used to come and go back. And every time he went back to the States, people said, oh, he's not coming back. And he came back when they won the championship, the league championship, oh, he's not coming back again. And he came back when they won the championship and went to the caribbean series. He's not going to play in the series. And Maze came back and played in the caribbean series.
Venezuela. I was able to meet again with the great one, Willie Maze, in California, in San Francisco, when the statue for Orlando Sepera.
[00:06:12] Speaker A: The unveiling, yes, the unveiling outside the ballpark.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: And I was able, I talked to him and we spoke on the phone. He said, yeah, you have to come and see me. And I went there, I got lost and called him in the phone and he's very curious. Hey, you got lost. What's happening to you, man, you don't follow instructions. And he gave me the instructions back, and I went. I met him. I was with my wife, and that would be an experience I will never forget for the rest of my life. And that's when he told me that he came to Puerto Rico because he was my father's friend.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: That's amazing, just hearing Willie Maze kind of like through the phone reprimanding you to say, did you follow my directions? And I'm sure that was a great laugh on the phone with the great, say, hey, kid.
[00:06:58] Speaker B: And I might add, know a book was written by Jorge Colon de Gallo, el Cangrejo mayor, which, that was his.
[00:07:06] Speaker A: Nickname, by the way. That was his nickname, right?
[00:07:09] Speaker B: And Jorge called me, hey, listen, can you get me an interview with Willie Mace? And, you know, Willie Maze doesn't give interviews to know. I heard once that he was supposed to go to New York and being on interview, and all of a sudden he said, no, I'm not going. And I called him and he told me, yes, please have him call me, but I will just speak to him and him alone. And he did give Jorge an interview, and Jorge was able to ask all the questions he needed for his work.
[00:07:41] Speaker A: That's one of those rare opportunities that a journalist has, an opportunity to speak to a player that really limits who he communicates with. But certainly Jorge was very fortunate. Your father was truly a trailblazer, Enrique. He, of course, as you mentioned, signed Clemente to play for the Santoru Se Crabbers, signed certainly another player that you mentioned, Orlando Cepeda, and a number of other puerto rican players as well. But he also gave an opportunity to a number of negro league players who came to play for your dad simply because they heard some wonderful things about the Santora Se Crabbers, obviously, who would not want to enjoy Puerto Rico, the weather, the beautiful ambiance of the island, but also including the great Josh Gibson, who also briefly managed the Santura Se Crabers team. Talk a bit of your dad's relationship with those negro league players.
[00:08:38] Speaker B: Well, as I told you know, my father used to go to the States, and he met those players and he traveled with them, and he was really friends. We have to friends with them. We have to remember the era this time when the black players were not able to play in the big leagues. When they came down here to Puerto Rico and to the know, they were treated as human beings, they were treated as equals. So that's a very important thing.
And they were eager to come down here. Josh Gibson came here and he was the first manager of the Santuse Roberts when he was just a very young, you know, he had some problems afterwards with mental sickness and everything like that. And we have at home a thing which we treasure, which is a postcard written by Josh Gibson when he really. He's writing. He died very young, let me tell you. I think he wasn't even 40 years old.
He's writing, you see, it's almost like a slurry. And he signed it to my dad, and he said, siempre to Hermano, always your brother, Josh.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:09:47] Speaker B: And I treasure that. So that's an example of how things arrange themselves. And my father was really fortunate to be there in that era, and he was able to make these things because he was like a kid. He enjoyed this game so much, and he didn't make any money out of it. People might think that he made money with Santuri. He just handed the franchise for a debt of $30,000 in 1956. But he enjoyed so much, so much this game. And I guess that was great.
[00:10:25] Speaker A: You know, something that, Enrique, you and I have talked about this not at length, but something that your father did as we continue on the topic. And really, he's known in Puerto Rico not as Josh Gibson, but Joshua Gibson and something that your father was a part of with another negro league player in Pittsburgh. Ted Page. And I had the opportunity last year to go to this particular location to see what your father was responsible for. Please, Enrique, could you share for our listeners exactly what your father, in essence, did? One of the final things ever for the great Joshua Gibson, along with Ted Page.
[00:11:11] Speaker B: Yeah. My father knew that Josh Gibson was buried in Pittsburgh. We went with Ted Page. I think there was also Monty Irving, who at that time was working with the Buick, who was the baseball commissioner. And we went to the Allegheny Cemetery in Pittsburgh, and we found out there that he was buried in an open ground. And they just had a small cement stone with a.
We went, we climbed up the hill, and I remember I did, and I was the one who really found the number. And the plague is here. Here it is. So they found it. And through Monty Irving, the baseball commissioner, major league Baseball, they constructed a stone.
A marker.
[00:12:05] Speaker A: A marker. An actual marker, yeah.
[00:12:07] Speaker B: And it was placed there, and that's how it was. Know, there's official site where Josh Gibson was.
[00:12:14] Speaker A: You know, that's something that not too many people know. And I'm sure our listeners are going to appreciate not only the legacy of your father as the owner of the Santuse Crabbers, but again, how he embraced. And let's not forget, this year we are celebrating the centennial of the negro league. So it's a really good point to bring up as to what your father and Ted Page were responsible for.
[00:12:36] Speaker B: And it was really great that at that time, money ibring was working with the commissioner's office. So it was really easy to do that because money evening had been a player here in Puerto Rico, and he was a very good friend with my father. Even though he didn't play for the Santusa grabber, he played for the San Juan Senators, but they were really good friends, and that's how things turned out to be.
[00:13:02] Speaker A: And it's amazing. I had the opportunity also to meet Monty Urban, who, for our listeners as well, on talking 21, that was the great one's idol. And ironically, Monty would be inducted in 1973, along with Roberto, but it would be posthumously. Your father really, truly had a keen sense of baseball talent. So you were able to really sit in the stands with your dad, interact with the players when your father was basically switching the roles of an owner and as a scout. So he would eventually become a scout in the United States, specifically with the San Francisco Giants and the Chicago Cubs. Did you ever ask your dad, Manzike, what he specifically looked for in a player?
The player's performance, their overall performance.
[00:13:53] Speaker B: I was able to be with him in many of the tryouts he made with the Giants. There was another scout for the Giants, the late chick Genovis, Frank Genovis, who came down here, a great baseball man, let me tell you. So they organized these meetings. They had what we call the bird dogs. The bird dogs are people that know about a certain player, that somebody has to look at this guy. And they used to contact my father, and we used to go around the island in the aa baseball to watch these players. Sometimes I was writing down the names and write down these throws, right, left, something like that. But I remember that he looked at the player. The first thing he did was look at his eyes, his face when he grabbed the ball, when he threw. And he was trying to determine if he had that passion, that fire for the game. And then when he executed, he was able to say, well, your fastball is okay. Your curve is so so and everything like that. I always remember he emphasized the strength of the core right here. You have to have a great core. Interesting, great legs. A player that has no legs is not going to go anywhere in baseball, but the core here, just to throw, it's not only the arm. The arm needs the core of the body to have. So he made that, especially talking to pitchers and of course, batters.
He looked a lot of the swing, the follow through. It was very important for him, the follow through. You don't stop your swing right here. You just follow through. And so you're able to have all that power when you hit that ball. Those are the things I remember when I was with him.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: It's amazing, Enrique, hearing you describe that here it is that you're watching your father in the role of a scout and so much that he taught you that to this day. You're so passionate and still are passionate about this, what we call America's pastime. But let's be honest, we could truly move beyond America's pastime because baseball is truly know. I know, Enrique, you shared a rather interesting story with me on a trip, and I'm sure it wasn't the only trip to Cooperstown, New York, with your father and how former all stars and of course, baseball hall of Famers reacted when they saw your dad. What are your memories of those visits to Cooperstown?
[00:16:33] Speaker B: I remember going to Cooperstown many times with my father. And what amazed me is that every time we went there, we stayed at the same hotel, the Otasaga, where all the players stayed. And I was amazed and surprised. Listen, I have to tell you this because I realized this many years afterwards because I was so young, but I remember that when we were there, almost all the players that had played in Puerto Rico and knew him came to him and greeted him as a friend. And I was amazed because I said, what is happening here? Why is everybody speaking with my dad and shaking hands and everything?
It was very mind puzzling for me. So I guess he must have had established good relationships in those years. And as I told you, he enjoyed so much this game. And he identified himself with the black players, especially with the back player, all the things that they went through in the states, so that he wanted them to be treated as equal to anybody. And especially they had that great talent. It's amazing. So I was able to see that one night they were doing ceremony, but this was not in Cooperstown, this was in Washington when they had the all star game. Buickoon was the commissioner, and we were at a gala, we were sitting there and Commissioner Buickoon started greeting everybody in the podium, a great ceremony. And all of a sudden he says, I wanted you to introduce you to a good friend of mine from Puerto Rico, said everything responsible for signing Roberto Clemente or Lano Sepera. And he said, meet Pedrinsoria. And I remember my father standing up and everybody clapping so that I will not forget in my life and I didn't know at that time why this was happening, but now I understand.
[00:18:32] Speaker A: Well, it just tells you once again the respect we talked about, the respect that they had for your father and his contributions to this. Know I know you also shared another story because know we've known each other for a number of years, a story with Clemente and your dad because now we could focus and kind of switch gears now with the great one, Roberto Clemente and how dear he was to your father as well, really almost a father figure, but share when your father is no longer the owner of the Santur Se Crabbers, but now he's the general manager of the San Juan Senators. So Enrique, for our listeners, please elaborate a bit more on that winter league contract.
[00:19:16] Speaker B: Well, in 1969 my father was contracted to be the general manager of the San Juan Senators, a decision that everybody in the family regretted because being the general manager of the archival San Juan senators, but my father loved so much baseball and he also was friends with the owners of the San Juan at that time. So I was with my father the day Clemente came back from playing the majors and my father had called him, listen, I'm going to be the general manager. Would you like to play? I would like you to play with San Juan this year. So Clemente went to the office and I saw when I see this guy entering, sitting there in front of my father Clemente was wearing a suit, a gray really, and he sat down, they were speaking like French. And all of a sudden my father tells, well Roberto, here's the contract. And Roberto takes the content, he grabs it and goes through it just to the last page and he signs it and he gives it back to my father and my father tells him, hey Roberto, you haven't looked at it, you haven't seen the contract. And Roberto told him, don Pedro, as long as it's with you, I don't care, it's okay with me.
[00:20:27] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Here. And at that year, I think it was $3,000 a month for each month in their three month season. He was the highest paid player that year, but he signed without looking at what the facts of the contract was.
[00:20:46] Speaker A: Referred to, no, something you'd mentioned right now. And for all of those, whether it was a former player, those that outside of baseball that really treasured their relationship with Roberto, and for all our talking 21 listeners, you have no idea of the guests that we have lined up for those that I continue to hear this often, even Luis Malloral, our dear friend in Texas, said this often. Clemente was always impeccably dressed. And you just said that right now, impeccably dressed. So anytime you saw him outside of the field, Enrique, he was just always very sharp. A suit, tie, press pants. That's the Clemente that you could say outside of baseball, outside the diamond. That's the Clemente that kind of registers in your brain.
[00:21:39] Speaker B: Yes. I would like to add that these past few days, we celebrated the 21 day in the major leagues. Every player that wanted to wear his number. And I cannot stop to emphasize that we know what Clemente did in the field. We know how great he was. But we have to emphasize the great human being that was Roberto Clemente. He was not Roberto Clemente for him. He was Roberto Clemente for everybody, for Puerto Rico. All the things he did outside, every time he paid attention to the little details of somebody, that was his real greatness. And I do hope after watching what happened a few weeks ago, that I think that retiring number 21 is already moving and there's no stop for it.
[00:22:38] Speaker A: We're definitely going to talk a little bit more about that, rique. So I certainly see it in your eyes, I hear it in your voice, the passion of that number being retired throughout major league Baseball. But we're going to talk a bit more on that. But Enrique, something about you just stressed of the human being.
And here it is once again. Enrique, another story of your dad. I have to call your father, Pedrine. I can't call him. I know. Well, listen, you know it and I know it. He was known, especially in the States, as Pete. I can't see that. I can't say that. I can't say that. I have to say, don Pedrin. But here it is. There's a dinner, and maybe it was 1960, 919 70. Your dad, Roberto Clemente, and a young Enrique Zoria, please, for our listeners, I mean, there's some humor behind it, but also there's a point where it's a heartfelt moment that it's something that you're going to always remember for the rest of your life. So please, if you could share.
[00:23:41] Speaker B: Yes, I remember it was 1969, and one was playing in Maya west at that time. We used to play Saturday night and then a double header on Sunday. Saturday night after the game, we had dinner and we went on the car and Roc Clemente was talking to my dad about what was happening in that team, that something wasn't working out. And know we had Thurman Munson that year as a catcher.
But the team really hadn't know. Pieces hadn't fall together. And all of a sudden, on the back of the car, I just say, well, that's what you're here for, Roberto. You're here to mend that. You're here to play, to carry the team, something like that. And my father looked at me really bad, and I said, oh, my God, what have I done? I remember when we got back to the hotel, I was really crying because my father told me, hey, listen, you don't talk that way to Roberto.
The next day, when we get up in the morning to go back to the ballpark, Clemente tells me, hey, here, come with me.
And I said, what? He, come with me. And I went to the ballpark with him in the car. And when we got there to the ballpark, he told the manager, ellie Scott, deal, he's going to be with me the whole day here in the ball game. So we went there to his dressing part, where they start dressing.
[00:25:04] Speaker A: His locker. His locker?
[00:25:06] Speaker B: His locker, yeah. He started to talk to me about how much he loved this game and that he had to be in his perfect physical condition to put on a show. He respected the game so much that the fans had to know that he was doing that for them. So he told me he was dressing. He got dressed up and everything, and he stood up and he just clenched his legs and told me, touch here in El Mullo, on top of his knees. And I remember touching right there. It felt like touching a stone or something out of steel. He was so strong. Then we go out, and before a game, everybody wants up, making catches, and he did that with me.
[00:25:55] Speaker A: Wait a minute, wait a minute. Wait a minute. You're telling me on the field, before Clemente plays, you're basically warming up Clemente? Is that what you're telling me?
[00:26:05] Speaker B: Well, I cannot say I'm warming up Clemente. He was doing that because my father had told him how bad I felt because of the comment the night before. And that's the greatness of Clemente in the sense that it was me that time, but he wanted to make me feel good again, to tell me, that's okay.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Basically, it kind of came back to where you guys are just playing catch right in front of the dugout, warming up and having a moment that certainly, maybe you appreciated it so many years later. But that was Clemente's very small way of saying the greatness, but a small way of saying, it's okay. I saw what happened. It's okay. Wow.
[00:26:52] Speaker B: I remember, I stayed the game. He made a great catch in right field, and then he hit a home run. And I came out with the rest of the players to the home plate to greet him in the game. So that was amazing for me. I will never forget that. But that tells you, as we said before, the greatness of Roberto. I was important for him for an instant so that he could mend what I had done as a young boy. But that's great.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: Would you say, though, Enrique, you picked up on that that actually was what he was doing, or it's something that registered so many years later? Did you kind of pick that up at that moment?
[00:27:32] Speaker B: I do remember that. My father telling me something, hey, you had a great time, right?
Look what Roberto did with you. But I think I remember he told me, never speak that way again in front of him again.
But afterwards, as the years have gone by, I was really fortunate. And he was like that with many people in many aspects of his life. So I would say that that's the thing that we have to emphasize more today. The greatness of Roberto Clemente as a human being. All the characteristics he had to be know. Everybody knows about Roberto Clemente around the.
[00:28:21] Speaker A: World, not only because he was a.
[00:28:23] Speaker B: Great player, but the things he did.
[00:28:25] Speaker A: And I think part of what our conversation is too, Enrique, is to say so much about also how important your father was in nurturing Roberto, but also the nurturing of a father towards his son. So certainly December 31, 1972, around 920, it took a couple of hours for people to know exactly, if not the following morning, what happened. So what are your recollections of what occurred on December 31, 1972, which probably, Enrique Zoria, you probably found out on New Year's Day. So if you can, and I'm sure it's somewhat tough, especially on how you were talking about Roberto just a few seconds ago. But how tough was that for you as a young man, basically a teenager, and your father knowing that he lost a great human being?
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Well, I remember it was really painful.
I do remember that the phone rang at home many times, and it was very anxious moment.
Puerto Rico was paralyzed.
I was really shocked. And the look of my father, and can tell you he was, we have to find out, is he okay? What happened? So he started making phone calls and everything. But as you know, nothing was able to. So the word is really sadness and painful. And I can describe that.
[00:29:54] Speaker A: And not only just specifically for the Zoria household, but kind of put Danny Torres, who obviously grew up in New York City, specifically the Bronx, but give me, I guess, a picture. Can you give me a sense of the island overall, the climate of the.
[00:30:15] Speaker B: Yes, yes. I remember the front pages of all the papers. Clementa lost. Clementa disappears in the sea. And that had been an election year in 1973.
Yeah, I remember. The governor elect was Governor Rafael Hernandez Cologne. It was his first term. And, you know, the inauguration is done the second of the year, January 2. And no ceremonies were held at the inauguration of the new governor. The swearing of the governor was done in an office and everything. Puerto Rico was in a state of Luto, everybody.
And it stayed there until no news were heard about recovering Clemente's body. So it was really painful. Many pictures. I remember many pictures of Vera at the shoreline, looking where the plane had gone down. And the beach was really full of people. Everything was concentrated on Roberto. Puerto Rico was at a standstill at that moment.
[00:31:32] Speaker A: Enrique, you just mentioned someone who. Actually, that was going to be my follow up question. Donna Vera Clemente. You surely met her numerous times.
What are your memories of Donia Vera Clemento, who passed away last November? And you and I were. Both had the. Well, actually, I had the opportunity of attending the memorial service. But what are your recollections of the widow of Roberto Clemente, Donyavera Clemente?
[00:31:59] Speaker B: Well, my recollections of being so fortunate to meet her. And I can say that she was a sweet lady. She was so sweet with our family, the way she spoke.
She used to call my father Don Pedro.
And she also went to see a couple of times, probably more. My mother. My mother is still alive. She's 97 years old. Wow.
[00:32:27] Speaker A: God bless her.
[00:32:29] Speaker B: And thank you for that. And I remember Donya Vera every time I met her. In certain activities that were held in the museum, sports museum in Guinabo.
I have to go and see Adiana. How is she? And I remember she going a couple of times. And she was so tan Carinosa. I don't know how to say the word in English, basically.
[00:32:52] Speaker A: So friendly with her. So loving towards your mother.
[00:32:56] Speaker B: Yes. And I remember my mother. Her eyes getting bright. Vera, how are you? My mother, she's really old. But I remember that we didn't tell her that Vera died at that moment. Afterwards, we spoke to her. And she was really very.
[00:33:20] Speaker A: From the standpoint of Dona Vera, the impact for so many throughout after Roberto's passing. Because she truly carried the torch along with her sons, Roberto Jr. Luis and Enrique. And she impacted, really globally. That's why major league baseball appointed her to be the goodwill ambassador.
[00:33:41] Speaker B: I guess you could say that Vera was really a point where unity. She's a great one. She's a great one.
[00:33:49] Speaker A: And, you know, interesting. You just said the great one. Well, guess what? There were two great ones. Roberto Clemente Walker and Dona Vera Clemente. So we have two great ones. And let's never forget that. You know, Enrique, something that I wanted to ask you too, because we certainly have talked how your dad impacted the game of baseball. I can recall when we first met in 2009 in Cooperstown, of all places, and Jorge Colon Delgado was there as well. And I believe that was when I first met him. But there were three individuals there at the opening of the Diva baseball exhibit. It was Roberto Clemente Jr. Orlando Cepeda, who your father signed, and Juan Marichal. But what I found interesting in the opening remarks of the three is how they continued all three. So that right there I got at least the beginnings, the understanding of how much your dad impacted their life. And that they wanted to mention in this exhibit that your dad's impact in the game of baseball, specifically for latin american ball players and negro league ball players. So we know that we have to include both. But I just thought the respect, Enrique, that they had for your dad, in a few minutes, they were able to speak on who Pedrine, Pedro, Pete Zoria was. So that, for me, speaks volumes, Enrique, about the impact of your father.
[00:35:24] Speaker B: Yes, thank you for that, Danny. And those were, for me also learning years, because after my father's passing, you start to hear and learn many more things that at least you weren't aware of in the sense that I was young. But nowadays I can speak of my father looking at him as a public figure, a baseball man. Remember, he was my father, and I always had him for my father. But this came a point in my life that I had to trace a line and say, okay, my father is here, but Pedrinzo Ria is here. The public figure, the baseball man, all his accomplishments. And I feel good speaking about my father without being pretentious, because I have to see him as a public figure. That's it. And I'm really grateful for know, I'm.
[00:36:19] Speaker A: So glad that you added that, because once again, I want our listeners to realize that, yes, it's called talking 21, but it's also having you as a guest, Enrique, that you're providing our listeners an opportunity to not only hear about Roberto, but those also that impacted Roberto Clemente's career, those also that really like yourselves and all of our guests are having the opportunity to provide that message to our listeners. Who Clemente was and those figures like your father who impacted the game of baseball. I want to kind of wrap it up right now, Enrique, because you really spoke really powerfully about retiring 21. And you mentioned the human element of Clemente. Yes, Jackie Robinson's numbers retired, but certainly they could just basically be at least one other aspect that Enrique Zoria, how can you say if right now you're in front of the commissioner and you had to compare the impact of Jackie and the impact of Roberto in just a few words as we wrap this interview up, this show, this discussion, which I truly enjoyed, how can you still add on to the message of retiring 21?
[00:37:44] Speaker B: Well, for one thing, there's Jackie Robinson. Jackie Robinson, baseball for me is the best game in the world. I'm prejudiced with that.
What Jackie Robinson did for baseball changed everything.
But there's another element, not only when the black players starting playing in the mid leagues, but when the latin american players starting playing the game. The game is different nowadays. Look at so many Latin American players have changed the game. Well, Clemente paved the way for that to happen. So Major LeaGUe Baseball nowadays is different from what it Was WheN it stArted.
And you have to incorporate and you have to enrich major league baseball. And the only way that bAseball, MLB is going to raise its image and be great is honoring the great ones. They've done it with Jackie Robinson and they should do it. I mean, if I may say so, with Roberto Clemente. He's retiring his game.
Baseball nowadays is a different ball game, if I say so, because of the black players and because of the latin american players. So I guess they should recognize that and go ahead. It will enrich MLB.
[00:39:18] Speaker A: Enrique Zoria, the proud son of Don Pedrin Zoria, once again, thank you Mil Gracias, for sharing your extraordinary story on not only your father's impact in the puerto rican Winter league, to the negro ball players who were embraced by your father, and finally signing Roberto Clemente Walker to the Santur SE Crabbers, nurturing Clemente being a father figure to the great one. And by that close relationship, you were able to personally witness another side of this remarkable human being who will forever hold a special place in your heart. Until our next episode. Thanks for listening. Be sure to follow us on Twitter at talking 21 podcast for all the latest information about our episode drops. And if you're enjoying the show, please be sure to subscribe and rate us on Apple, Spotify and wherever you get your podcast. Thank you to our executive producer, Rasquebara. Tune in next time for our continued conversation of the great one, Roverto Clemente Walker. And as always, this is your host, Danny Torres. You can follow me at Twitter Danny T 21. Until next time, everyone. Thanks for listening, Rover.
