Episode Transcript
[00:00:09] Speaker A: Hello and welcome. I'm your host, Danny Torres, and thanks for once again tuning in for an exciting talking 21 podcast. The official podcast dedicated to the extraordinary life and legacy of the legendary 21 provelto Clemente Walker. Dave Cash is our next talking 21 guests. He was born in Utica, New York, drafted in the fifth round by the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1966. As a 21 year old, he would make his major league debut on September 13, 1969, against my hometown team, the New York Mets. The Miracle Mets, who, interesting enough, eventually won the World Series that same year. In his twelve year career, this lifetime 283 infielder who primarily played second base for the Pirates, Phillies, Expos and Padres, was a three time all Star. But we can also throw in. He led the league in at bats three years in a row. How about during the 74 75 seasons with the Phillies, he batted over 300. In 1975, he was the first in hits with 213. During those years, he also played the entire 162 games for back to back seasons. And during his tenure in Philadelphia, he also led the league in at bats three years in a row. What I also found rather interesting is that for three consecutive years, 1970, 419, 75, and 1976, he once again guess what? Led the National League in double plays turned. And finally, our talking 21 listeners will appreciate this little tidbit about our next guest. Throughout his entire Major League Baseball career, he only hit, guess what? 21 homers. How about that? There's something magical about that number 21. Although Dave made his mark in Philadelphia, he will forever be linked to the 1971 Pittsburgh Pirates and having a unique vantage point of playing alongside three future Baseball hall of Famers, Bill Mazarowski, Willie Stargill, and, of course, the great one, Roberto Clemente Walker. Thanks so much, Dave, for being on the talking 21 podcast. But before we begin, I want to thank your lovely daughter Alex, who helped set up our virtual one on one conversation. So welcome, my brother. And the first thing I want to ask you is, how's that golf game going?
[00:03:02] Speaker B: Oh, man, I'm terrible, but I like to hit the ball around.
[00:03:05] Speaker A: Oh, come on, you could lie. You don't have to say terrible.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: It's a lot easier hitting that ball on the ground than hitting at 95 miles an hour. So I want to hit something. So I rather hit that golf ball now at my age.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: All right, well, I just realized, Dave, we actually met in Pittsburgh for the very first time in 2011. Our mutual friend Sean Gibson of the Josh Gibson foundation held his annual foundation gala to celebrate the 100th anniversary of his great grandfather's birth. You actually met one of those negro league players and a Brooklyn Dodgers legend and someone who actually is in a baseball hall of fame, the great Jackie Robertson. So share with our listeners your recollections of that meeting.
[00:03:52] Speaker B: Well, it wasn't a real long.
We had, the whole team was invited over to one of the doctors. We were playing in Chicago at the time. Jackie was doing a fundraiser. The Pirate team got invited to go see him. And he was always my hero, man. He's one of the reasons why I played the game. And I didn't have a chance to talk to him and have a sit down conversation with him because there were so many people at the event. He was always my hero. And like I said, he was the reason why I started playing the game. But like I said, he was a perfect gentleman. And of course, some of the things that he stood, the things that he went through to get to where he got was incredible.
[00:04:31] Speaker A: Well, you know, from Jackie, we can now go to the great Dave cash. And we have to start from the beginning. What can Dave Cash tell the talking 21 listeners about his? And I can say, honestly, because I'm in New York, our home state of New York, but specifically your great town, your great city of Utica, New York, where you were born.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: Well, it gave me an opportunity to show up my athletic ability.
I played baseball in grade school and in high school, and it gave me a platform to show off my skills. And I was lucky enough to have a scout that lived in Utica, New York. His name was George Detour, who was watching me every day of my high school career. And I never knew anything about it because he never made mention that, let anybody know that he was around. But he was watching me for my whole four years of high school. And I got 1966. I got drafted to the Pirates because of his recommendation.
[00:05:32] Speaker A: You know, Dave, certainly someone planted the seed of baseball. Who was that person that planted the seed that really you gravitated to the sport?
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Well, my mom and dad. But like I said, jackie was the main character, and I had plenty of know. I had Willie Maze, Ernie Banks, Hank Aaron, and you can go on Mickey Mantle, and you can go on and on with all the stars that were around at that time. I love sports, and baseball, I think, was my choice. I love basketball and I've played football, but baseball was something that I kind of gravitated to and got an opportunity to play. I had a chance to play with some very talented individuals. I thank the good lord I got that opportunity.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: Now, Dave, you mentioned some big names a few minutes ago. Would you say those particular players were the ones that you watched on tv. So you certainly mentioned Mays, Ernie Banks, Mickey Mantle. But is there that one player that you said, my God, I just love what I see every day when I turn on that tv?
[00:06:35] Speaker B: Well, not only that, it was the player that I got a chance to play with that was Roberto Clementi. And Robbie could do some things that he was just unbelievable. He taught us how to play the game, and he was a great leader. He set the example. And when you play with Robbie, you want to play up to his expectations. So he made all of us know that's what a great leader know.
[00:07:00] Speaker A: So you obviously get drafted by the Pittsburgh Pirates in the fifth round. What experience that must have been receiving that news. Share with me a little bit of that when it became official.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: Well, I was shocked at the time. I got a phone call from just like they do now from the executive and said that you got drafted. And I didn't really know what that meant. I know it gave me an opportunity to play, and I was very excited about it, but I really didn't know what I was facing. I didn't know what I was going to go up against because I'd never played professional baseball for. Now I was going to get a chance to go and play, and I was worried a little bit about, now I'm going away from home. I got to learn how to live on my own and so forth and so on. So it was a challenging experience, but I'm glad I went through it.
[00:07:45] Speaker A: Well, an experience it must have been. But for every player that gets to the big show, talk about the minor leagues.
[00:07:52] Speaker B: Well, at that time, there was a lot of racial problems going on at the time, and it was very hard, if you're a man of color or Latin playing in any minor league town in the south in the early 60s. So it was kind of challenging in that respect, but I never experienced that. We had five and six, seven hour bus rides, which it was challenging in itself to just have to travel that distance and then play a game.
We're playing 140 games in the minor league, so that was an experience I had to get adjusted to and accustomed to and learn how to deal with the game. It taught me a lot of things, how to act as a professional and how to take care of yourself, how to live on the road and a whole bunch of things that you kind of grow up and you become a man, so to speak, by having the experience to go to the minor leagues. I know there's been some players who've never played in the minor leagues before, but it's an experience in itself.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: And certainly we all know, Dave, it's the minor leagues of your generation and the minor leagues of today's baseball player who certainly doesn't spend too much time down there. But you know, Dave, so here it is. You make your major league debut in 1969. Talk about that first game in 1969. And interesting enough, it was against my New York Mets.
[00:09:14] Speaker B: Well, I tell you, I was shaking in my boots the first time I got a chance to experience my first game, my first time at bat, my first game. But after a while, you get over it, and the guys in the team help you relax a little bit and you get a couple of hits here and there and you start to settle in a little bit and you realize that, hey, I can play with these guys as well. So it's a learning process. But I had some great guys around know I had Willie, Stargill, Clemente, and especially Bill Masarovsky, who helped me develop as a second baseman because I always played on the other side of the diamond. I always been a shortstop. And then making that transition to go and play as second base, it was an experience in itself. And I give Maz a lot of credit for helping me with my development.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: You know, it only would take two years. And let's be honest, Dave, there's guys that never have that opportunity to go to a World Series and play and certainly win. Take it all. And obviously, we know what happened with the Baltimore Orioles, but it would only take two years. But your teammates were quite special. But before we even touch on you know who, the great one, please share with our listeners. You guys would end up going 97 and 65, the 1971 Pittsburgh Pirates. How much do you credit your manager, Danny Murtaugh, for the team's success?
[00:10:39] Speaker B: Well, Danny was the driving force of our team. He was our leader. And Danny was, I guess the expression is he's a player's manager. He puts you out there, lets you play. If you did the job, you stayed. If you didn't play well, you were replaced by somebody else, and that's all you can ask for. He never lied to you. He always tell you the truth. And if you were doing bad, he encouraged you. If you were doing well, he pat you on the back. So he was an ideal manager, especially for me, a young kid coming in, not realizing what it takes. Know, having been managing players like Mazarowski, now you got a young player. And myself, I was on just to be around him, but he was a great leader, and we all had confidence and he had confidence in know.
[00:11:29] Speaker A: You were putting a huge smile on my face when I was looking at baseball reference and looking at stats. I love baseball reference. And it's interesting. In the championship series against the Giants, you batted 421. Your recollections of that series. But you know what, Dave? I got to pat you in the back. Your batting average was better than your teammates, Roberto Clemente. So tell me about that series.
[00:11:53] Speaker B: Well, I don't know. I guess I got lucky earlier because I hit the ball pretty well and some pretty good pitches to hit. And I realized that we had to win this thing to get to the World Series. And I just had a good series. It was one of those things that I wish I could have had that same series in the World Series, but it helped us get there. So that was an important part of it. So I'm happy about that. At one time, I think I had the record for the most hits in a four game series. I don't know how they measure it now, but back the time, like you said, I had hit 420 something. And it felt good. It felt real good being able.
[00:12:35] Speaker A: There's something about that 21 because look at the number 421. Dave, if you had to close your eyes right now, and I'm being really serious, if you had to close your eyes right now, what really sticks out about the 1971 World Series that went seven games against the Baltimore Orioles?
[00:12:57] Speaker B: We don't have enough time, put it that way, to tell you the things that went on.
And the two teams that competed at the time, they had 420 game winners, and we had a bunch of guys that could swing them back. But I think they kind of underestimated our pitching staff. And one of the things I know they underestimated was our defense. And we never got very much credit about our defense because we hit so well. And there's a cliche in baseball that.
[00:13:24] Speaker A: Says.
[00:13:27] Speaker B: Good pitching, good defense, win ball games. Well, you can't score with pitching and defense. The only way you can score in baseball is from the offensive side. And I've had a lot of arguments with people about that. The defense and the pitching save the game. They don't win it. You can only win the game from the offensive side because you can't score with pitching and defense. And the only way you can win is to outscore the offense, the opposition. So you got to have a good offensive club, and then you have to have some guys that come in and close the game out and save it for you because that's the way it is. I mean, you have to have the offense and the defensive part of it, but I think that we played seven games, and it was a grueling contest. They kicked our butts the first two games, and then we came back and swept the next three in Pittsburgh, which was kind of challenging. We set another record. We were the first night game ever to play in a World Series.
[00:14:25] Speaker A: That's true. That's true. Three rivers.
[00:14:28] Speaker B: Unbelievable. And they turned all the lights on downtown Pittsburgh. It was amazing. It was unbelievable.
And here's another thing that people don't realize.
We won the World Series in 1971, and Bob Gibson threw a no hitter against us, and that was the first no hitter that I've ever had been a part of. I mean, thrown against me. I played in one and witnessed another one, but I've never had one thrown against me. And Bob Gibson threw a no hitter against us that day in Pittsburgh. Unreal. He was basically know. But we came back and played him the next series in St. Louis, and we beat him.
And we're awful happy about that because Bob was a very tough pitcher, man.
He could put it where he won most of the time.
[00:15:21] Speaker A: Hey, listen, that's called payback, right, Dave, for everyone. When you think guys like myself, that again, I grew up in New York, definitely still a met fan. But when I think of the 71 series, let's be honest, Dave, you're going to think of Roberto's heroics. Those are what going to come to my mind. And when I look at Roberto, I look at the footage and those that I have spoken to about that 71 series, your teammates, what were those early days like for Dave Cash when you first met Roberto Clemente? Tell me about when you first met him.
[00:15:58] Speaker B: I was in, you know, you listen to him, you hear him on. See him on tv, look at him. I hear him on radio, and now I got a chance to play next to him. And he carried himself differently than a lot of book. He was very proud of who he was and where he came from and his heritage. And he had a lot of problems with the media, and I don't think they understood Robbie at all. And he was a man of the common man, put it that way. He wanted to be amongst the people. As a matter of fact, after we clinched a pennant, everybody's looking around for Robbie. That's celebrating. He's out in the streets celebrating with the people.
He was a people's man. And to me, I'm sure he feels the same. A lot of guys in Latin America feel the same way, but he was the Jackie Robinson of Latin America. Okay. He's the reason why a lot of latin players are playing today.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: You know, Dave, that's very, very true, and we're certainly going to talk a bit more on that legacy of Roberto Clemente and his impact. Well, Dave, I'm going to ask you this because certainly you had a twelve year career in major league baseball and you had your share of slumps, areas where quite possibly facing the great Bob Gibson.
Areas where maybe you just made a mistake on the field, where Bill Mazarowski took you to the side and said, hey, Dave, this is what I saw. So here it is. When you had a bad game, you were in a slump, would Clemente come over to you and say, hey, Dave, this is what I saw, know give you some insight, some advice? I heard Willie Stargill did that often.
[00:17:42] Speaker B: He did, yeah, and so did Robbie. Both of them were consoling, especially for guys that had bad games, because he wanted to maintain guys confidence.
Once the guys like Clemini and Stardro and Mazarowski believe in you, you have to have all the confidence in the world. And that's what they both did. They instilled the confidence in the players that they played with. No matter how many years you play. I mean, they treated rookies just like they were veterans and that usually didn't happen, especially back at that time. Usually the rookies were sort of put on the side and you kept your mouth shut and played the game.
So I was very lucky to put it that way, to have the opportunity to come to an organization that had these three veterans, that especially Robbie, because I was close enough to him. I played three and a half years with him and never had a collision between me and him and second base and him and right field. He would always tell me, if you hear me, get out of the way because I got it. And he'd always had the override of anything that was popped up behind us or behind me and in front of him. And because of it, we never had a collision.
[00:18:52] Speaker A: That's interesting because now when I think about it, here it is, you played second base. You would have those interactions with Roberto all the time. So like you said, once you heard, hey, I got it, you just scurried away.
[00:19:06] Speaker B: I'm telling you, that man, get out of the way. I got know if he could put his glove on it, you were out and nobody ran on him, okay? And that's what's one of our, there's no telling how many runs he saved. Pitchers on base, hits to right field, that guys were afraid to attack his arm. So that was one of the intangibles. It's not measured by any statistics, but it helped us win a lot of ball games.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I'm going to throw something else at you because it's a little story that Lou Brock shared with me, and he told me in 1971 that all Star game, he struck out the prior at bat before what he ends up doing against Mickey Lowich. When he sits in the dugout, he's speaking to Lou Brock, and he tells Lou Brock, hey, Lou, guess what? I'm going to hit a home run the next at bat. And lo and behold, he ends up doing that. And one of the things that I heard often, and it tells you a lot about the greatness of the ball player, it's almost like he was setting up the pitcher. Like, in other words, I'm going to swing and quite possibly I might strike out, but I want you to throw it there again the next time I face you, because I know you're going to throw it there because you think you got one on me. And he ends up against Mickey Lowlich in Detroit in that 1971 all star game. He hits a bomb. Now let me ask you this, Dave. When you think of Clemente in a batter's box, when you think of him in right field, you already mentioned defensively, what was it that you saw from the dugout where you said, maybe inside? I know that as you call him, and we're going to talk about that. Robbie's going to get a hit, Roberto's going to get a hit, or maybe, hey, Roberto, I think this time around the pitchers got one on you. When would you say you kind of experienced that?
[00:20:49] Speaker B: Well, I think in the World Series, Mike Quayer was pitching and he got Clemini out on a screw ball or a breaking ball the first time up and the second time up, he told Manny Sange, if he throws me that same pitch again, I'm going to take him out the left center. And Quayar threw Robbie a pitch, a hanging, breaking ball, and Domini hit it out the left center for a home run to give us the lead at that particular time.
But Robbie, he was unreal. I mean, he could give you anything you wanted. If you want a single, he could do that. If you want a double, he could do that. If you want to hit it out the park, he could do that. He had all the tools and what a player.
I can't express the things that he did for us and for me as a teammate and for us as a team in itself.
Always hustling, never given. He played every game like it was his glass. He gave his full effort all the time. Amazing player.
[00:21:56] Speaker A: In 1972, you guys play five games in that championship series against the Cincinnati Reds. Sadly, you would lose. But one of those lasting images that I remember, and you see the footage on YouTube of when Johnny Bench hits that home run and the play by play announcer just basically says something along the lines, Clemente to the wall. And you just see Clemente's head kind of just make a little slight bow. But that's the last image that we will see and ever see in Clemente's last game ever.
It happened to be in riverfront, but certainly it's the last time we ever see Clemente on a ball field. So, Dave, as sadly as we all, when December 31 comes around, what are your recollections? Where were you when you heard the tragic news on the passing of your dear friend?
[00:22:46] Speaker B: I was at home, and I heard it came over the news, and I was shocked. You just can't believe it, and you don't want to believe it. And we started getting phone calls from all the people that knew him, all the people that knew us. And it was a trying time at that point in time, because he was doing something that was humanitarian. He was taking some relief to Nicaragua to help the people out down there because the food wasn't getting in, people were stealing it, and it wasn't getting to the people that needed it. And he wanted to make sure that those supplies got to where it was needed. And just unfortunately, the plane that they had, it was a malfunction. And he went down in one of the deepest parts of the ocean in Puerto Rico. And at that time, they didn't have the sonar equipment and equipment that they have now to find them because they couldn't get down to those depths. And we never got a chance to see him again.
It was a crushing blow to our baseball team, and it was a crushing blow to the puerto rican people because he was always a leader. And like I said, there was a lot of guys playing baseball now because of Roberto Clementi.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: During your entire career, you played with twelve future hall of Famers. I actually counted the list. They were actually your teammates. Future hall of Famers. Other than Clemente, Stargill and Maz, which future hall of Famer that you watched from the dugout or when you on the field that really, you just marveled? You just shook your head. I got the list, Dave. I could tell you the players, but I think you know, a few of Schmidt, you know, Gary Carter, Tim Reigns, Andre Dawson. You know, those are some pretty impressive.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Oh, I'm telling you. And the list goes on, guys. I played against Marshall Mays, Aaron Ferguson, Jenkins, Tom Sieber, you know, and there's a name, know, I know he passed away, but there's a name that probably one of the greatest all time pitchers ever to put the uniform on. So I had a chance to play with Guy Jim Cott, another one, Jim Longboard. I mean, the list goes on.
[00:25:05] Speaker A: Can I throw another name in there, Dave, go ahead. Dick Allen.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Oh, they're my main, see, guess what.
[00:25:13] Speaker A: Because I want him to hear the podcast to yo, Mr. Allen, someone forgot to mention your me. Give me a little something about Nick Allen.
[00:25:22] Speaker B: Dave, when Dick came back to us and I was with Philadelphia at the time and we had just started to build a team that we thought could win the championship, and the general manager came to me and said we got a chance to get Dick Allen. What do you think? What do you mean what do I think? I said, you shouldn't be thinking about it.
He would be a great addition to our team. Especially it would help a couple of guys like Smitty and Lezinski, because here's a power hitter that could identify with those two.
Mean Dick brought a wealth of experience, a wealth of knowledge, how to play the game and the way he played the game. Not only his athletic ability, but the mental part of the game that he brought to us exemplified leadership as well. But Dick was, he was something else. And there's another guy that should be in the hall of Fame, no doubt about it. Him and Albert. There's another one. Okay. Yeah.
[00:26:22] Speaker A: Your boy scoop. Lifetime, over 300 biting average.
[00:26:26] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: I want scoop to hear this show as well. You didn't forget scoop?
[00:26:31] Speaker B: No, never, man. That's my main man. He just had a birthday here recently.
[00:26:35] Speaker A: Yes, he, yes, he did. I did reach out to him and he said he was overwhelmed with the amount of text messages and phone calls. So certainly Al is a class act. Earlier I mentioned throughout your entire career and that magic number once again. So we talked about that batting average of 421. Were you ready for this, Dave? Your entire career you only hit 21 home runs, right? That's all you got? 21.
But there was one particular at bat on September 16, 1979. It was a doubleheader in Olympic stadium. It didn't even happen in the United States.
And you was on eleven game hitting streak. The crowd went bonkers.
Tell our listeners, the talking 21 listeners, what happened to Dave cash in the great country of Canada.
[00:27:33] Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you, we're playing the Cardinals and think either Carter or Dawson let off with a base hit. The next guy got walked and it was two outs and Cromarti hit a ground ball to Keith overfell and he booted it and it loaded the bases.
First pitch was a ball, the next pitch was a strike. And the pitcher tried to get through another one by me and I hit it out of the ballpark for a grand slam, a walk off home run, that 59,000 people in the stands and they went crazy and it put us in the first place at the time.
[00:28:12] Speaker A: And help me out because I know the answer. Who were we going up against towards the tail end of that September season? It was against your former team.
[00:28:22] Speaker B: Exactly. And actually they ended up winning the world. I mean, ended up winning the World Series. And I thought that should have been us at the time because we had played so well down the stretch. We had a dynamite team as well.
The city of Montreal was excited. The people were going crazy and we were drawing 50,000 people almost every night.
[00:28:45] Speaker A: You know, Dave, the smile that you put on right now, and I hear it in your voice, you seem to, even after moving on from the Pirates, certainly. I mean, Dave, can we even talk about those years in Philadelphia? But certainly, Dave, although it was just a twelve year career, it seems the impression that I've gotten, even when I've spoken to you throughout the years, that you were pretty content where you said, you know what, Danny? Although I moved on from Pittsburgh, man, look, what ended up the Pittsburgh Pirates would miss out and what I would end up doing. I mean, consecutive all star games, I mean, lead the lead in hits in the league. In hits. Listen, Dave, there's stats that are unbelievable for a player in the mid seventy s. Now let's not forget everybody talks about the big red machine of the 70s. But Dave, here it is. You're playing in Philadelphia and you're pretty impressive there. So Dave, what was it? I mean, would you say after was that's where you really started to say if I was given that opportunity to stay in, know this is what you guys would have.
[00:29:51] Speaker B: Well, you know, Pittsburgh needed a left handed pitcher and I was expendable at the know. We had Rennie Stennett at second. So the Pirates dealt me on the Philadelphia and I looked upon it as an opportunity because little did I guess no one realize that I had spent six years in the Marine Corps and I used to miss a weekend every month of the season. And I did 15 days during the summer camp right in the middle of the season. So when I got to Philadelphia, I got a chance to play every day, and I didn't have to worry about serving in the service anymore. And it gave me an opportunity. And also, I was a little older, more experienced, and I was asked to lead a team or be a part of a team that had a champion, that had a chance to win. So I thought, if I can bring them a bunch of hits, good defense, good base running, and with the people that we had, we had Smitty, Lezinski, Carlton, a whole bunch of guys that had some potential. And all we had to do now is build that confidence. And they started believing in themselves, and all of a sudden, we end up, in 1976, we were 101 and 61. We lost to the big red machine, and they went on and beat the Yankees in four straight in the series. So we could say we had the third, 4th best team in the world at that point in time. We didn't get a chance to play in the series. That's the only thing that I regret by not bringing a world championship to Philly at the time that was there, because we had a good enough team with Alan and Smith and Boa Boone, Maddox, John Stone, Ollie Brown, Greg Leslinski. Oh, we had a nice.
We just. It seems like when you have a team and you don't quite make team, the organization seems to think they have to make some improvements, and sometimes it sets them back instead of carrying them forward.
It took Philadelphia four years after that 76 team to get back to the World Series. So after I left, I think there was a four year regression from the ball club, which I love playing in Philly.
[00:32:03] Speaker A: It was great, and it's a player that I just thought of immediately. And if you could share a few words about who actually played for the Mets in the 73 season, would go on to start this champ. You got to believe. You got to believe. Tell me about Tug McGraw.
[00:32:20] Speaker B: Tug, he was help on the leader, especially in the bullpen, on a team that played with Philly, loved Tug, his attitude, his positive thinking, and his willingness to come in in tough situations and get that ground ball double play that you needed. And he had the experience, too, because he had been through the 69 championship with the Mets. So we were building a pretty good club in Philadelphia. We had all the ingredients. We just couldn't get a break in the playoffs. But Tug was incredible. He had that screwball, and guys he could deal with either left handed or right handed hitters. So he has something for both of them.
Great competitor and we miss him.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: I'm telling you, Dave, something that we all know in 2020, whether it's the pandemic that our world is going through currently, sadly, so many lives lost in the United States. But something else that came out of in 2020, and that is the Black Lives Matter movement. And interesting enough, next year, the 50th anniversary of when the Pittsburgh Pirates fielded, for the very first time in major League Baseball history, an entire lineup that consisted with you, Dave Cash, along with your fellow black and Afro Latino ball players and teammates. But my question to you, Dave, is this. What can society learn from that historic day? What occurred on September 1, 1971?
[00:33:49] Speaker B: Well, it has to be a message of togetherness, of unity, and of sacrifice, because a lot of things are going on that shouldn't be going on. There should be justice for all, equal rights. That's what it's all about.
Respecting each other and demanding respect and giving respect. It's all about respect, put it that way. And if there's no respect, then there's no law and order. Okay? And when there's no law and order, there's chaos. And that's what we're on the verge of now. We need to straighten this out, and we need to bring people back together, bring families back together and help each other. That's how, when we're as Americans, when things get tough, we band together. And until we can do that, it's going to be a long, hard road. And this pandemic is not making it any easier. We have to listen to the scientists. We have to get together as a country, as a nation, and stop worrying about outside forces. We got to band together and keep those outside forces, especially the negative ones, out there. We have to band together, okay? We're all in this boat together, period.
Like they say, a rising tide will lift all boats, and that's what we need now. It's a rising tide.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: One person that without a doubt, we know when it came to anything that he felt specifically, that it wasn't impactful enough for his community, the latin american community, from baseball players to, as you mentioned earlier, the common folk. But with the current climate in today's society, what would you believe Clemente specifically would say if given the opportunity to speak to those present in front of him?
[00:35:43] Speaker B: He would probably say the same thing that people are saying now. Black lives matter and latin lives matter and people of colored lives matter.
He would definitely speak out. And he was against any kind of oppression, any kind of prejudice, any kind of restrictions that was taken away from man's human rights. He would speak out against. So he was a leader, not only baseball wise, but a civic leader as well.
Like you said, he would always speak out against oppression and people that were downtroded, and he would be a spokesman for the little guys, put it that way.
Even though he was a giant of a man, both physically and athletically, whatever he did was always to help the common man, and that was his main thing, because he had played in the minor leagues, he had played in the states, and he had played in places where he wasn't wanted or wasn't like, and he had to deal with that because of the color of his skin. And he realized that he was a man of all times.
He was a very proud man, and he believed that things should change and things should be equal and things should be right. And when they weren't right, he would speak out against them no matter what they were, no matter what's. If he. If he saw something that was wrong that we're doing to a white person, he would speak on it the same as he would. If there was something going wrong with a Latin or black person, he would speak on it. He was just that kind of a man. He wasn't afraid to say what he felt, and everybody knew that he was telling the truth. So that was another thing about him. He's going to give you the straight scoop all the time, whether you like it or not. He's going to tell you like it is.
[00:37:38] Speaker A: I'm sure you had an opportunity to watch on tv. I had the honor of being there at PNC park on September 9, 2020, which your former team, the Pittsburgh Pirates, for the very first time since 1972, when your dear friend passed away, were allowed to wear the number 21 during the game. If you had a moment, Dave Cash, to speak to the commissioner of major League Baseball on the importance of retiring Clemente's number league wide. What else besides the obvious, would Dave Cash want to tell the commissioner of Major League Baseball what he needs to know about the greatness of Clemente and why that number needs to be?
[00:38:22] Speaker B: Because, you know, he stands for not only the American Baseball Society, but the Latin American Baseball society as mean. Here's a guy, like I said before, just like Jackie Robinson, he broke the color line for the latin players. I mean, there was a lot of latin players playing before clipmen, but none had the stage that he had, and none played in the World Series in the United States like he did. And because of his exposure, there was a lot of kids growing up in Puerto Rico and Venezuela and Mexico and places south of the border that was watching him play, that was inspirational, that gave them hope that they could get out from under the oppressions and some of the things that they had through this game that he gave them, that he brought to them and he showed them how to play it.
That's what, just the fact of him raising up that community and inspiring kids to play the same like Jackie, well.
[00:39:25] Speaker A: I think it's an appropriate way to end this unbelievable and fascinating and extraordinary conversation with World Series champion Dave Cash. And Dave, I can't thank you enough. I can't thank Alex enough, even though I want to call her Alexandra. But I can't thank you enough for being on this show.
[00:39:44] Speaker B: Danny, it's always a pleasure, my man. You know, you're one of my favorites. Good luck to you and God.
[00:39:49] Speaker A: Thanks so much, Dave. What a great show. And once again, thanks so much for sharing some pretty amazing stories about meeting Jackie Robinson, playing alongside twelve future Baseball hall of Famers, and experiencing the greatness of Roberto Clemente up close. Clemente was truly the leader on that 1971 world championship team and provided the best example on the field and certainly his impact off the field. And that will never be forgotten until next episode. Many thanks for listening, and please be sure to follow us on Twitter and Instagram at talking 21 podcast for all the latest information about our episode drops. If you enjoyed the show, please be sure to subscribe, rate, and certainly review us on Apple, Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts. And of course, a special thank you to our executive producer, Raz Gebara. Tune in next time for our continued conversation about the great one. And as always, this is your host, Danny Torres. And be sure to follow me on Twitter at Danny T 21. And finally, to all our talking 21 listeners, let's never forget these words that were once spoken by by Roberto Clemente Walker. Anytime you have an opportunity to make a difference in this world, and you don't, then you're wasting your time on earth. Until next time, adios.
